Spontaneous War of Faith mid-show reaction post!

[mumblemumble]

(Concept and title entirely stolen from grayswandir, with love.)

My god, what a show. I've been live-reacting to the episodes in a Discord channel that was specifically created for me to yell about War of Faith, thank you lunarriviera, and also in a few skeets, but now I guess the time has come for a DW post as well.

THIS SHOW.

I'm at episode 23 right now, out of 38, so I've witnessed Shen Tunan jogging up to a bleeding Wei Ruolai, asking him gently if he's okay, barely holding himself back from checking him over for wounds, and then striding towards the deputy chief of whatever to fucking PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE. FOR GETTING HIS BOY HURT.

It was. Very good.

*fans self*

I thought I wasn't going to watch this show, because of The Violence, but then recently I inquired about it again and was promised a happy ending, so here we are. It would be nice to watch it with someone who can tell me when the torture scenes are over, but I'm making do. The gay makes up for a lot.

I've previously said that I'm finding it a bit tricky to 100% get into the ship because Shen Tunan might just be that tiny bit too fatherly and Wei Ruolai is just... very one-note, it has to be said. Their whole relationship is so very unlike the toxic yaoi magic that Wang Yang and Zhu Yilong made happen. But then the show goes and gives me ANGRY DAD and smol hurt baby clutching the precious box he saved for his shifu, and I'm like, well I GUESS I can work with this.

Soooo.

The one thing I find... confusing? frustrating? Interesting? Interestingly frustrating? is figuring out what the show wants me to think about communism, because I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to be in favor, but uh.

Chat transcript, edited for clarity:

mumble:
Oh god help
everything [shen tunan] just said about the prosperous future of the country led chunmiao to believe he's a communist oh my god I can't stop laughing I'm in tears
THAT'S IT THAT'S THE SHOW!!!!!
Well, this was all amazing
But also such a whiplash of swelling violins and hilarity and confusing propaganda, and the more they do this the less I understand the journey we're supposed to be taking here
I know it'll become much clearer towards the end, alas

c:
It really is a whole journey. Though I'm 99% you'll have a good time with the end

mumble:
I was promised a happy ending, and I will hold you to it!
I just read elsewhere the propaganda really ratchets up in the final episodes
Right now I'm like, well your current main example of a communist is this rude rich girl and your main example of a capitalist is this hot dad who keeps trying to alleviate poverty on a national scale, and his main fault is that he believes the government can be trusted with that. But like, I wouldn't trust "the people" with global economic challenges either, so where does that leave us
At war, I guess
Also the rich assholes who're just trying to get even richer have like nothing to do with this ✨ war of faith ✨
They're just assholes
Their personal greed proves nothing

a:
asshole capitalists

mumble:
I GUESS IN A TECHNICAL SENSE
But it's not like they're devoted to the three principles
They just like money
Our capitalist protagonist wants to uplift the damn homeland

a:
shen tunan is not REALLY a capitalist because he puts the country and the people before profit, therefore in this logic he has Always Been a communist, he just doesn't realise it yet

mumble:
Ahhhhh
The way that the three principles have always included communism, like, in spirit
I see I see

a:
exactly. I mean, you can make a lot of money and be a top banker and whatever, but as long as ultimately your aim is to make China great again, all good

mumble:
|-- "Anyway, the real enemy isn't communists or capitalists, but cops"
I stand by this, then

(God, I hate Lin Qiaosong's boss so much)

Okay, just putting some stuff here, in no particular order:

- when Ruolai is about to be released from prison and tells Captain Lin "don't touch Mr Shen" and it's hot
- when they get "I still want to be your assistant" married
- when they get "If this guy is really a communist-- / I'll take responsibility" married
- when they get fountain pen married
- when Shen Tunan sets his own bank on fire to assess job candidates
- and also shoots himself in the arm for tax reform
- Lin Qiaosong
- the sugar daddy scene at the tailor's
- are we not gonna grapple with the fact that Ruolai straight up murdered a dude?
- the jealous secretary, my god, he was fully having a stroke during the shifu scene and I was L I V I N G

TBC

I'm generally very in favor of spoilers and don't like watching tense scenes when I don't know what happens, but the one thing I've remained mostly unspoiled for is how on Earth there could be a happy ending for Shen Tunan and Wei Ruolai, and I'm looking forward to finding out!

Otherwise, if you wanna talk about the show, don't hold yourself back! And feel free to tell me who dies. (I was already spoiled for one particular death by an AO3 tag, lol, and I'm a bit sad about it. Poor guy.)

Comments

[grayswandir]

I'm assuming that's how it'll go?

Something like that! But yes, a happy ending for the fountain pen husbands. :)

[mumblemumble]

I mean, he is fully against communism and (as you'll see in later episodes) he does take that very seriously

Oh no, I SAW. He invited Captain Lin and Kang whatever to his NYE party (albeit for spite reasons), and when Ruolai was understandably put off by their presence, Shen Tunan was like, well, their methods might not always be the best, but we still have to support their work against the communists. Like, DUDE. Directly to the torture victim's face. Ice cold. I was shook.

(EDIT, December 13: Oh wait, I think I just arrived at the parts you meant. Just going around executing people for the good of the country, okay okay okay. Cool cool cool cool cool. Not gonna be my favorite arc, this one. 😬 I do remain unspoiled for and EXTREMELY EAGER TO FIND OUT ABOUT his eventual redemption or whatever is going to happen there. Whew. YOU'RE BEING SCARY, XIANSHENG.)

But also, I had to laugh when the handler said Shen Jinzhen's big advantage in trying to win over Ruolai was her faith, as if he had never met Shen Tunan in his LIFE.

But now the tiny loud fiancée has shown up and rattled him a bit, so we'll see.

All the symbolic marriages are great. XD

I'm still blown away by how MANY there have been. Like, seriously, I thought the scene where they formally announce their continued working relationship and everyone starts clapping and cheering and throwing rice, that was IT. They're married now, everyone go home. But good God, they just kept GOING.

I'm trying to understand the mind of a viewer who watches the shifu scene and genuinely reads it as a serious mentor/student character moment that serves to illustrate why their paths to the one righteous ideology will play out like they play out, but like. To me, that's a big ask.

Still kinda weird that this is a thing our protagonist did and it just never seems to matter, though!

Oh wow, yeah. I mean, I wasn't sad when that seemingly unkillable weasel was finally gone, but wow. That was such a protracted scene of struggle and pain, you'd think they'd consider its implications at SOME point. But I guess it was just for catharsis, or something?

But then I was also a bit surprised by how easily he just smashed that dude's head in, so like. Still waters, I guess.

UNHINGED FOUNTAIN PEN HUSBANDS. \o/

[grayswandir]

EDIT, December 13: Oh wait, I think I just arrived at the parts you meant. Just going around executing people for the good of the country, okay okay okay. Cool cool cool cool cool.

Hah, yes, that is the part I meant! But you also made a good point about how he was already very "we have to support anybody who's fighting the good fight against the communists, even if they tortured you" even before that, which I'd kind of forgotten about. But yeah, I was definitely not expecting him to survive the series or get any kind of possible redemption once he started executing people who were helping the communists.

Also now realizing I never replied to the rest of this comment!

I had to laugh when the handler said Shen Jinzhen's big advantage in trying to win over Ruolai was her faith, as if he had never met Shen Tunan in his LIFE.

XDDD I guess if it was going to be a "War of Faith," there needed to be faith on both sides? Not sure there had to be quite as much of it as we actually get from Shen Tunan, though. XD

Like, seriously, I thought the scene where they formally announce their continued working relationship and everyone starts clapping and cheering and throwing rice, that was IT. They're married now, everyone go home. But good God, they just kept GOING.

Yes. :D Sadly I think the symbolic marriages do drop off once Wei Ruolai leaves Shanghai, but the show certainly gave us a lot of them in the beginning and middle!

UNHINGED FOUNTAIN PEN HUSBANDS. \o/

\o/

[mumblemumble]

Not sure there had to be quite as much of it as we actually get from Shen Tunan, though. XD

At some point in my watching I was like, "I wanna be like, I just want someone to love me as much as Shen Tunan loves his country, but uh. I think less would be fine. Like. Normal amounts. Would be fine!" and that wasn't even before anything major had happened!

Like calm down, Shen Tunan, oh my god.

Maybe the executions are okay because it's fat cats who weren't really contributing to society, ahem. Have at it, xiansheng. The communists will forgive you. (???) But wow, he and Lin Qiaosong kind of make a great team, I gotta say. Just two unhinged little KMT gremlins. WITH A PLAN.

By my count the husbands had three weddings and three breakups (Ruolai quitting, Shen Tunan disowning him, "there's a fire in your heart"), but I think a case could be made for more or less in either direction. Still, though. Intense.

(Also, randomly, I just found out, thanks to that sham obituary, that Shen Tunan was supposed to be 36 years old at the moment of his death, which is. Completely wild. Haven't quite recovered from that little bit of info yet.)

[grayswandir]

Like calm down, Shen Tunan, oh my god.

Yeah, I feel like your "shot himself in the arm for tax reform" comment really hit this home. XD (And then he just stands there bleeding to death for like an hour because HE HAS TO BE THERE FOR THE VOTE.)

And yeah, I think the guys he executed were all helping the communists but doing it for personal gain? Not with noble ideals and love for the people? I guess?

I just found out, thanks to that sham obituary, that Shen Tunan was supposed to be 36 years old at the moment of his death

Oh, whoa. I did not notice that detail! (Man, why do they always cast Wang Yang so much younger than he is? They did the same thing in Lost in the Kunlun Mountains, he was supposed to be in his early thirties there, I think. I mean, I did sort of figure Shen Tunan had to be younger than Wang Yang really is just because of the backstory with his sister -- it sounds like they went to college in Germany at roughly the same time, which obviously doesn't work with the actors' ages, and since Shen Jinzhen is presumably close to Wei Ruolai's age, that means Shen Tunan also can't be that much older than Wei Ruolai... but I never really thought that much about it while watching the show. I can't actually picture Wang Yang as 36!)

[mumblemumble]

Man, why do they always cast Wang Yang so much younger than he is?

Maybe he just shows up to auditions and crushes it, and then they're like, well, guess this is the character now, and we won't bother to change ANY RELEVANT PLOT DETAILS.

It makes no sense that he's 36, sorry Yang-ge, BUT Shen Tunan being 36 does make sense for the siblings' time in Germany, and also explains why he has such a young child? (I was wondering.) He's still quite a bit older than Ruolai, who's 23 at the beginning of the show, but I guess now they're... roughly ten years apart, instead of twenty? 😔

Okay, that makes no sense, he's sooo fatherly with him. Although there was that flashback to """young""" Shen Tunan seeking out Cishu in that restaurant and stiffly informing her that the engagement was back on or something, and he's supposed to be in his twenties and back from roaring post-war Berlin? Maybe this was supposed to show us he's just one of those people who are born like, forty years old. 😄

(I have now seen the "last meal" scene and am incredibly confused by what is happening, with four more eps to go. The things I endure for you, stupid little age-gap ship! Have to say though, Wang Yibo's acting in that scene was top notch. To me, anyway. Just this pure, genuine heartbreak and regret on his face. The propaganda was insufferable, but the acting was really good. Also, lol, "stuffing your cheeks while having a mental breakdown", is that just a genre thing or did Wang Yang steal that from Lin Nansheng. 😄)

[grayswandir]

Maybe he just shows up to auditions and crushes it

This is probably it. XD Impossible not to cast him, but are we really going to rewrite this character's whole backstory now? Nah.

But yeah, all along I sort of had this impression that he was already in his mid thirties when he got back together with Cishu. I guess not!

with four more eps to go

I forgot the last meal scene was that late in the show, but yeah, things do get kind of rushed at the end! And agreed, I thought everybody did really nice work in that scene. Propaganda notwithstanding.

"stuffing your cheeks while having a mental breakdown", is that just a genre thing or did Wang Yang steal that from Lin Nansheng

Sadly he did not steal it from Lin Nansheng! It's actually really common in Chinese movies and dramas. And I feel like every time I've seen it, it's been really well done, too. The first movie where I saw a scene like that, I was like "wow, this is such an unusual choice, what a brilliant piece of directing and what an amazing performance." Second time I saw it, it was the same actor, so I thought the scene was maybe copying or riffing off of the other film (but if anything the scene was even better, so I couldn't complain). Third time it was another film with the same actor in it, but his character had died and the surviving pregnant girlfriend was doing the stuffing-your-face-while-crying scene, and I still wondered "is this a reference to those other two movies... or is this just a Cdrama thing??" And then I ran across the same kind of scene in other unrelated movies/shows, in both mainland China and Hong Kong and in various genres. (It even kind of happens in Guardian, in episode 2 with Li Qian at the hospital crying while eating, after her grandmother dies. And she does an amazing job with it too.)

[mumblemumble]

Belated, but wow, I didn't know! I mean, I thought maybe it was a genre of scene, but good to see it confirmed! I always find these hard to watch, but they definitely convey a lot of emotion. Such as Wang Yang being about to die. ._.