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mumblemumble) wrote2024-12-19 10:59 pm
mumblemumble) wrote2024-12-19 10:59 pm
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War of Faith (2024)
The rambling conclusion to my rambling mid-series reactions, now with even more spoilers!
Do I recommend this? Yes. If you like age-gap hoyay, and don't mind some violence* and a truly stupendous amount of CCP propaganda**, this is the drama for you. If you don't like age-gap hoyay, I don't think you want to engage with this.
Anyway, I don't think I'm overselling it when I say it's a love story.
To get this out the way first, both Wang Yang and Wang Yibo survive the show. About halfway through the show, you'll start wondering how, because their paths start diverging quite a bit, but they do. I don't want to spoil the details of the ending, but. I mean. It's a lot.
Anyway, have some completely unorganized bullet points:
- There are a couple of scenes where I was like, did Wang Yang improvise this? And it turns out that he did! When Shen Tunan straightens Ruolai's clothes(1) as he tells him to keep the fire in his heart alive, and when he flings the folder onto the table(2) and shatters several tea cups-- those were unscripted! I love him.
- There were a lot of moments where I was like, are you insane, this man will never convert to communism, you're deluding yourself! But then by the end it's actually mostly believable. I did think all the repetitive speeches were unbearable, but his massive disappointment in the Kuomintang, all the accumulated humiliation he endured for them, the absolute belief in a better future for ~*the country*~, the fact that he's established as someone who's willing to reconsider things based on new information-- it all adds up! I do wish they would have just let Wang Yang do his thing and dialed down the really overt propaganda, but ah well.
- The first communist we meet when the red trio makes it to Jiangxi was absolutely insufferable and I kept waiting for him to die. The show gave me this, so some points from me there. Deducting most of them again because everyone died in that scene, but. Still.
- There's a scene, relatively early on, where Wang Yibo has endured days of torture and weeks in prison because he wasn't going to incriminate his boss in a crime the torture cops were trying to frame him for, and he is now at the hospital and said boss is watching him get some medical attention. It's a scene directly lifted from a h/c fic. It's amazing. Wang Yang says something like, I can't even imagine what you had to endure, and Wang Yibo tells him, and I quote, "I thought, even if they kill me, I can't hold you back. You're meant for great things." What an absolutely unhinged thing to say to your boss. My brain broke a bit at that scene.
- It literally only gets gayer from there.
- The show asks, as its thesis statement, what if you finally meet, after spending two or three or four decades on this Earth, the one person who matches your brilliance, your singular focus, your interests and your personal beliefs. What would that feel like? A younger version of yourself who looks up to you with hearts in his eyes. A mentor, a person of authority, who recognizes your talents and personally pulls you from the muck. Could you bear to lose this bond? What if the strength of your conviction, the ferocity of your beliefs, the thing that drew you to each other, eventually forced you apart? What would you do?
- Also, something about communism. But, and I don't think I'm overselling it, really mostly about that bond.
- Also, there's a third character? I'm gonna be honest with you, I didn't super care for her. I think it helped that both Shen Tunan's beloved disciple and his beloved sister kept trying to convert him, and his wife also didn't seem to mind the communists very much, so at some point he really ran out of arguments on the contra side. The gege-meimei relationship was well acted and I thought the whole family was super lovely and warm and sweet together, and I enjoyed the little child actress. But I... did not like the sister very much.
- I did like the wife.
- Anyway, Wang Yang's character, according to one tiny bit of info given in one of the later episodes, is 33 years old in the first episode. It makes sense in-universe, but is, of course, preposterous given the casting. I don't think fandom cares very much (whatever, age gap, personal backstory timeline, we're all just vibing) but I was shook.
- The jealous secretary character was a source of constant bafflement to me. He kept doing the same bit over and over again, with no escalation and no consequences. Just doomed by the narrative to be jealous of Wei Ruolai and say mean things about poor people. Over and over again. Never grows as a person. Never goes away. Just constantly by daddy's side, desperate for approval, somehow failing to learn what daddy approves of. Even his death is just used as a narrative hook to tell us about a plot twist and insert another little speech about the glory of communism. What a thankless role. What a fascinating non-character!
- There is--speaking of scenes lifted directly from fanfiction--a moment where Wang Yang arrives on the scene of a car crash (there was another explosion, this show has so many explosions) and jogs up to Wang Yibo who's sitting on the curb all smol and forlorn, holding on to the one box he managed to save from the fire. Wang Yang crouches down, gently asks Yibo if he's okay, almost angrily takes the box and puts it aside when Yibo keeps holding on to it, and then barely holds himself back from checking Yibo for wounds. Then he walks up to the person responsible for the car crash (some law enforcement bigwig) and punches him in the face. Could have also been a really hard slap. It was hard to see. Just really throws his whole body into it. It was so hot.
- This is a show about the glory of communism.
- At some point Shen Tunan gives his lucky fountain pen to Ruolai, in a scene that can only really be described as a wedding? I mean, they officially become shifu and disciple. In an incredibly public ceremony. Just bonkers stuff. Anyway, Wang Yang picked that pen for a livestream(3) where the actors were asked to bring something which represents their character. So that's all fine and normal.
- Wounds don't make sense on this show, recovery from head trauma and physical injuries makes no sense, who dies in and who survives an explosion makes no sense, lots of stuff involving the proletariat side characters makes no narrative sense, the ending makes absolutely no sense if you think about it for more than two seconds, and I still don't understand the timeline of the Shen siblings' university days in Germany.
- The bond between Shen Tunan and Wei Ruolai, though. I'm telling you. Unhinged.
I think that's it for now. There's probably more stuff I meant to say, but let's stop here. Sorry for the lack of visuals, but here, have these screencaps? For reasons.
1. Translated excerpts from the livestream where the cast watches ep 28-29
2. Translated excerpts from Wang Yang's interview with "Spotlight on the Legendary Drama" 《神剧亮了》
3. Translated excerpts from the War of Faith livestream interview of the cast
Do I recommend this? Yes. If you like age-gap hoyay, and don't mind some violence* and a truly stupendous amount of CCP propaganda**, this is the drama for you. If you don't like age-gap hoyay, I don't think you want to engage with this.
* If, like me, you're worried about scenes of torture, but would like to watch Wang Yang be hot and in love with Wang Yibo, please, I will go through all the episodes and give you time stamp information on when to look away and for how long. I will do this for you! And also for Wang Yang. (I skipped the torture scenes by holding a hand up in front of the TV screen, muting the sound, and squinting at the subtitles every now and then to see if we were done. I'd estimate there are maybe a half dozen of these. Otherwise it's mostly shootouts, explosions, some war imagery, and some grossness.)
** So many speeches about the glory of communism, and such swelling trumpet music. It's bearable if you have a sense of humor about it, but my god.
** So many speeches about the glory of communism, and such swelling trumpet music. It's bearable if you have a sense of humor about it, but my god.
Anyway, I don't think I'm overselling it when I say it's a love story.
To get this out the way first, both Wang Yang and Wang Yibo survive the show. About halfway through the show, you'll start wondering how, because their paths start diverging quite a bit, but they do. I don't want to spoil the details of the ending, but. I mean. It's a lot.
Anyway, have some completely unorganized bullet points:
- There are a couple of scenes where I was like, did Wang Yang improvise this? And it turns out that he did! When Shen Tunan straightens Ruolai's clothes(1) as he tells him to keep the fire in his heart alive, and when he flings the folder onto the table(2) and shatters several tea cups-- those were unscripted! I love him.
- There were a lot of moments where I was like, are you insane, this man will never convert to communism, you're deluding yourself! But then by the end it's actually mostly believable. I did think all the repetitive speeches were unbearable, but his massive disappointment in the Kuomintang, all the accumulated humiliation he endured for them, the absolute belief in a better future for ~*the country*~, the fact that he's established as someone who's willing to reconsider things based on new information-- it all adds up! I do wish they would have just let Wang Yang do his thing and dialed down the really overt propaganda, but ah well.
- The first communist we meet when the red trio makes it to Jiangxi was absolutely insufferable and I kept waiting for him to die. The show gave me this, so some points from me there. Deducting most of them again because everyone died in that scene, but. Still.
- There's a scene, relatively early on, where Wang Yibo has endured days of torture and weeks in prison because he wasn't going to incriminate his boss in a crime the torture cops were trying to frame him for, and he is now at the hospital and said boss is watching him get some medical attention. It's a scene directly lifted from a h/c fic. It's amazing. Wang Yang says something like, I can't even imagine what you had to endure, and Wang Yibo tells him, and I quote, "I thought, even if they kill me, I can't hold you back. You're meant for great things." What an absolutely unhinged thing to say to your boss. My brain broke a bit at that scene.
- It literally only gets gayer from there.
- The show asks, as its thesis statement, what if you finally meet, after spending two or three or four decades on this Earth, the one person who matches your brilliance, your singular focus, your interests and your personal beliefs. What would that feel like? A younger version of yourself who looks up to you with hearts in his eyes. A mentor, a person of authority, who recognizes your talents and personally pulls you from the muck. Could you bear to lose this bond? What if the strength of your conviction, the ferocity of your beliefs, the thing that drew you to each other, eventually forced you apart? What would you do?
- Also, something about communism. But, and I don't think I'm overselling it, really mostly about that bond.
- Also, there's a third character? I'm gonna be honest with you, I didn't super care for her. I think it helped that both Shen Tunan's beloved disciple and his beloved sister kept trying to convert him, and his wife also didn't seem to mind the communists very much, so at some point he really ran out of arguments on the contra side. The gege-meimei relationship was well acted and I thought the whole family was super lovely and warm and sweet together, and I enjoyed the little child actress. But I... did not like the sister very much.
- I did like the wife.
- Anyway, Wang Yang's character, according to one tiny bit of info given in one of the later episodes, is 33 years old in the first episode. It makes sense in-universe, but is, of course, preposterous given the casting. I don't think fandom cares very much (whatever, age gap, personal backstory timeline, we're all just vibing) but I was shook.
- The jealous secretary character was a source of constant bafflement to me. He kept doing the same bit over and over again, with no escalation and no consequences. Just doomed by the narrative to be jealous of Wei Ruolai and say mean things about poor people. Over and over again. Never grows as a person. Never goes away. Just constantly by daddy's side, desperate for approval, somehow failing to learn what daddy approves of. Even his death is just used as a narrative hook to tell us about a plot twist and insert another little speech about the glory of communism. What a thankless role. What a fascinating non-character!
- There is--speaking of scenes lifted directly from fanfiction--a moment where Wang Yang arrives on the scene of a car crash (there was another explosion, this show has so many explosions) and jogs up to Wang Yibo who's sitting on the curb all smol and forlorn, holding on to the one box he managed to save from the fire. Wang Yang crouches down, gently asks Yibo if he's okay, almost angrily takes the box and puts it aside when Yibo keeps holding on to it, and then barely holds himself back from checking Yibo for wounds. Then he walks up to the person responsible for the car crash (some law enforcement bigwig) and punches him in the face. Could have also been a really hard slap. It was hard to see. Just really throws his whole body into it. It was so hot.
- This is a show about the glory of communism.
- At some point Shen Tunan gives his lucky fountain pen to Ruolai, in a scene that can only really be described as a wedding? I mean, they officially become shifu and disciple. In an incredibly public ceremony. Just bonkers stuff. Anyway, Wang Yang picked that pen for a livestream(3) where the actors were asked to bring something which represents their character. So that's all fine and normal.
- Wounds don't make sense on this show, recovery from head trauma and physical injuries makes no sense, who dies in and who survives an explosion makes no sense, lots of stuff involving the proletariat side characters makes no narrative sense, the ending makes absolutely no sense if you think about it for more than two seconds, and I still don't understand the timeline of the Shen siblings' university days in Germany.
- The bond between Shen Tunan and Wei Ruolai, though. I'm telling you. Unhinged.
I think that's it for now. There's probably more stuff I meant to say, but let's stop here. Sorry for the lack of visuals, but here, have these screencaps? For reasons.
1. Translated excerpts from the livestream where the cast watches ep 28-29
2. Translated excerpts from Wang Yang's interview with "Spotlight on the Legendary Drama" 《神剧亮了》
3. Translated excerpts from the War of Faith livestream interview of the cast
no subject
BUT MOSTLY THEM
LOOK AT THEIR FACES
THEY'RE SO IN LOVE IT'S SICKENING
[plus, thank you for not-watching all those torture scenes/explosions so i don't have to]
no subject
IT'S A DRAMA ABOUT COMMUNISM AND ALSO LOVE. Love for the country. 🥹
no subject
For real, these two guys being intensely attached to each other is so much the whole point of everything that happens. Platonically or otherwise, it's about some kind of love, for sure.
Also omg, Wei Ruolai having the walls of his room plastered with newspaper clippings about Shen Tunan! Fanboy meets idol, idol decides to keep him. (The scene where Shen Tunan carries him upstairs to his room, puts him to bed, wipes his face with a cloth, and then notices all the pictures of himself covering Wei Ruolai's walls. I just. I cannot with the fanfic levels of tropiness on this show.)
When Shen Tunan straightens Ruolai's clothes(1) as he tells him to keep the fire in his heart alive, and when he flings the folder onto the table(2) and shatters several tea cups-- those were unscripted! I love him.
!!! <3
I do wish they would have just let Wang Yang do his thing
I wish this too. The man knows what he's doing, he's got this, we don't need it all spelled out!
Love your description of the show's thesis statement. <3
Just doomed by the narrative to be jealous of Wei Ruolai and say mean things about poor people. Over and over again. Never grows as a person. Never goes away.
Yeah, it really was a strange role! It was hard to understand why Shen Tunan continued keeping him around as his right-hand guy, given that Congyun seemed to just constantly get everything wrong and never really understood what Shen Tunan wanted. But I guess on the other hand, Shen Tunan did probably know Congyun was obsessed with him and utterly loyal even if his loyalty often went in the wrong directions, and I guess he didn't have a lot of other people around that he could count on to stand by him no matter what (without ever questioning his choices or being disappointed in him, like Wei Ruolai was constantly doing).
This is a show about the glory of communism.
I mean I guess. XD
Anyway, Wang Yang picked that pen for a livestream(3) where the actors were asked to bring something which represents their character. So that's all fine and normal.
OMG. XDDD I don't even know what to say to this. That is... that is amazing. XD
...Their faces omg. <333
(I have not clicked on the Tumblr links yet but thank you for sharing them, I'll come back for them!)
no subject
I will go through all the episodes and give you time stamp information on when to look away and for how long. I will do this for you!
Obviously don't do this specifically for me, but if you end up making a list of timestamps for someone else, I'd be interested to see the list just because it would give me a better sense of what kinds of scenes you want to avoid seeing, in case the same thing comes up on another show and then maybe I can give you timestamps to avoid next time! Like, I could obviously predict that you wouldn't want to see Wei Ruolai in the actual torture-chamber scenes, but I couldn't decide whether Captain Lin getting whipped would count, or that guy getting a bedpan dumped over his face, or Wei Ruolai beating up the guy in the bathroom -- I probably would have erred on the side of warning for anything with violence/deliberate harm, just to be safe.
Also apologies that I never ended up sending you a list of all the shippy scenes! I actually did rewatch the show over summer and was trying to make a list, but I felt like the shippiness was mostly sort of... cumulative, rather than being a product of specific scenes? I mean, there's stuff like the fountain-pen marriage that's probably pretty shippy even with zero context XD, but even, like, the scene where Shen Tunan punches the guy after the car explosion, I feel like the scene sort of needs the background of why Wei Ruolai was in the car to begin with, why the car got blown up, what's in the box, etc. to set the scene for Shen Tunan's emotions about what just nearly happened to Wei Ruolai. I kept wondering if individual scenes would really convey the shippiness of it all. Because as you say... when you add it all up, it's A LOT.
Anyway I'm really glad you ended up watching the whole show! It's been great getting to read your reactions to everything. :D
no subject
I'M HOLLERING. That scene, oh my god. When he gently wipes his face and tucks him in. I just cannot with this show. (Also, I've been reading some fic in this fandom and there was one where (description of sex scene) Tunan fucks Ruolai intercrural on that bed, Ruolai on his side and whining that he wants to look at Tunan, so Tunan tips his chin up and tells him to look at the newspaper clippings, and it was. So hot.)
...Their faces omg. <333
This is after the vows, while everyone (minus one) is clapping and cheering! It's all so preposterous, oh my god.
(I have not clicked on the Tumblr links yet but thank you for sharing them, I'll come back for them!)
There are two moments in that livestream with the cast that I keep coming back to. It's available with subtitles as a 39th "episode" on iQIYI; and without subtitles on YouTube (cued to 23:30):
First, the Congyun actor gets asked what position he thinks he holds in Shen Tunan's heart (they added a sad flop sound effect to the end of that question, which gets me everytime), and he says all the things Congyun would like Shen Tunan to think (biggest supporter, steadfast, loyal) and then bends over to eagerly ask Wang Yang, "Isn't that right?", to which Wang Yang says, "Maybe before Ruolai showed up." I want to believe that all three of these dudes were in on the love story, and so far the Congyun actor has given me no reason not to. 😄
Secondly, a little after that, the MC--for some ungodly reason--asks Yibo whether he thinks Ruolai was jealous of Congyun after he joined the Central Bank team, and everything about their reactions was gold. The wide grin from Wang Yang, the absolutely incredulous "ME??? OF HIM???" response from Yibo, the faces from the Congyun actor. I have rewatched that moment so many times, I can't even tell you.
Re: timestamps!
First of all, please don't apologize for not giving me those scenes when we were talking about the show! It was already quite an ask, but I realize now how impossible an undertaking it would have been to isolate chunks from the whole story. The moment after the car crash really only hits so hard because we've gotten to know Shen Tunan, and he does have a temper, but he does NOT go around punching people. (God, it was so hot.) And how soft and gentle he is with Ruolai and his stupid box, that only works in contrast to previous moments of conflict. And etc.
So yeah! <3
Just going by memory, if I were to create my own list of warnings, I would timestamp all the scenes that are explicit torture*, the scenes with Li Shengda's coma doctor at the hospital, the scene with A-Wen on the roof (too much spit and phlegm involved, gross), and the prison beatings and the gross foot thing I thankfully didn't see a lot of. The Japanese invasion arc I think I would have summed up as, there's a lot of war imagery and death that adds nothing to the plot, just know that everyone banded together in patriotism and Lin Qiaosong was released from prison to fight. (But I would have timestamped Shen Tunan showing up in his best waistcoat and tie to carry heavy things as a must-watch.)
So that's my DNWs. 😀
* (I envisioned I was gonna do this on the iPad and pause at the beginning of a scene, then cover the screen and leave like a sliver at the bottom visible see when it's over, and then hit play again 😄)
I think in addition to grievous bodily harm (outside of, like, generic gunfights or explosions), I just don't like suspense very much, which I understand is not a great quality in a spy drama audience. 😬 So I'm much more likely to watch something if I know that things will be more or less okay after X, or that Y will die but Z survives.
no subject
OMG, that is AMAZING! ♥____♥ Wang Yang!!!
Anyway, Wang Yang picked that pen for a livestream(3) where the actors were asked to bring something which represents their character. So that's all fine and normal.
WANG YANG!!!
Thank you so much for the links!
no subject
no subject
So many speeches about the glory of communism, and such swelling trumpet music. It's bearable if you have a sense of humor about it, but my god.
no subject